Welcome to the blog of Johannes Wilm!

I recently went to Northern Ireland, to the city of Belfast. The Left has generally supported those pro-catholics, who are working for a united Ireland as a part of a national liberation struggle from London rule. I decided to interview representatives of progressive parties on either side on the issues that socialists should really care about -- social issues -- to see how different they really are in their day-to-day politics in these current times of peace. This is the first of three parts, me interviewing Hugh Smyth, founder and former leader of the Progressive Unionist Party (PUP) and current member of the Belfast City Council, representing his small, but locally very present party, in his office in the Shankill Road in Western Belfast. Parts two and three will follow tomorrow and the day after

Hugh Smyth is standing outside his office in the Shankills Road.

Johannes Wilm

• Ok, here we go... ehm.. yeah...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Who.. what are you enquiring?

...

Johannes Wilm

• I'm trying to look at...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• [door opens, interchange between office worker and HS]

Johannes Wilm

• And I'm trying to look at what kind of policies you have.
  That.. what you.. what kind of policies you support..

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• right

Johannes Wilm

• and what you don't support and so on. Given current issues that
  you have in this country. I can read all the questions up first if
  you want me to.

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• No, just we'll go through them. I need to do it fairly quickly,
  cause I'm..

Johannes Wilm

• ok ok. Well the first one is about gentrification. I saw when I
  walked up here there were lots of signs... ehm.. what people asking
  for apart... like not to build more apartment buildings and that
  there was a lack of public housing.

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• What... What's your response to that?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Well, that is true. I mean, the Shankill road is a typical
  working class area.

Johannes Wilm

• Yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• It used to be that we had what was known as high-rise blocks of
  flats.

Johannes Wilm

• Yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• And these were built by the housing executive. And we fought
  for years to get them demolished and the feeling being that we
  needed housing, not massive big tower blocks of flats.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah, yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• And it seems to be that that's over 25 years ago, that the
  whole circle... it's done a complete circle now. And now that these
  luxury apartments are coming back. Whilst we welcome investment in
  the area, the thing being that the people in this area can't afford
  them. They're way beyond the price range of the people here.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• And so the local people's needs needs to be met. So what we are
  saying: we're not opposed to a certain amount of apartments. But we
  want the sites that they build, split up, and that there should be
  a percentage of that would become affordable housing.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah, yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• That's the way we're lookin at that

Johannes Wilm

• Very good. Ehm... What about the public funding for roads and
  parks and so on. Is that ... Is that an issue for you here?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Not at the moment. We've just switching over... got our new
  assembly back in.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• And... It has been an issue. I mean in the past we believe that
  the British government didn't put enough finance into roads and
  parks and various different things. But we now feel that we have
  for the first time ever an opportunity of our own politicians being
  able to seek and hopefully have sufficient funds to completely
  rehabilitate the whole of Northern Ireland. Now it's not gonna
  happen overnight.

Some newer graffitis ask for social housing - rather than declaring loyalty with Dublin or London.

Johannes Wilm

• hmm

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• It's gonna take time. But I believe that we are now taking the
  first step towards achieving what we want to be... where we want to
  be.

Johannes Wilm

• ok. Ehm... What about industry? And I'm thinking Harland &
  Wolf, Shorts, Mackies, Like there has been has been some problems
  in keeping industrial jobs up here.

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Yeah, we lost thousands upon thousands of jobs. I mean Mackies
  is no more. There is no James Mackies; it's gone. Harland &
  Wolf is surviving, you know, on a couple of hundred people where it
  used to employ 30,000. The aircraft factory is still there,
  Bombardier, that's probably one of the most modern and best
  aircraft factories in the whole os western Europe, if not the
  world.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Very, very. And it's continuing to give employment. But whilst
  we lost jobs in the field of... of... eh... that type of a field,
  there's other jobs have been created. And at this given time, we're
  enjoying the lowest unemployment figures that we have had for over
  fifty years. So whilst we lost jobs, because of the peace and the
  investment that has been put in the computerized type jobs...

Johannes Wilm

• hmm

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• The whole market has changed. From engineering type bit works,
  because that's... that's the facts across the whole of Europe. But
  with the modern technology that we now have. We're enjoying to be
  the lowest unemployment figures ever.

Johannes Wilm

• So I take it that you don't see any need for current action?
  And...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Oh yes, we do. You know, I'm not saying that we should sit
  back. I believe that there needs to be more apprenticeships
  signments. My biggest fears is that we have many skills in Northern
  Ireland. And my fear is that we're gonna lose those skills. Even
  the shipbuilding skilled and the engineering skilled. So I think
  the government need to take on a program where there is more
  apprenticeships, I mean even the skills that people don't
  recognize... I mean, because of the big changes that's taking off
  here in Northern Ireland, a lot of the jobs that are being created
  are in the building trade. I mean you would have brick layers, you
  would have plasterers...

A poor protestant neighborhood. Houses, houses, loads of houses. But not much else.

Johannes Wilm

• mm

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• ... carpenters, electricians. Now, at the moment we're having
  difficulty... I know for a fact that companies are having
  difficulties recruiting people.

Johannes Wilm

• mm

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Because, those were trades that people shied away from. But now
  they realize that those are highly paid financial jobs. But what we
  need to do is to get the government to open up a training program
  where people can actually go in and... where people can be trained
  up as brick layers

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• ...and as plasterers, as carpenters. And they do it for the
  first couple of years, cause firms can't afford to take them on.
  But if the government opened up a training center, where the first
  two years would work to qualify them for their apprenticeship and
  then they can be farmed out to these companies and finish their
  trades there. I think it's very important that we do that.

Johannes Wilm

• hmm.. very interesting. What about the NHS service? Do you thin
  it's sufficient?

"Ulster says no... to the politicians" -- although formally loyal to Britain, loyalists are often not really excited about the politics coming out of there.

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• No, I'm far from it. But I'm meaning I'm speaking like... Right
  across Europe, our national health service has fallen greatly
  behind. Probably we're worse of than anywhere in the rest of the
  United Kingdom. But again, we've just been announced a budget for
  this year for the health. And it's a far far greater improvement
  than what we've had from direct rule ministers. So I'm actually
  hoping that, because again of our own ministerial team taking over
  at Stormont, that they're treating health urgently. It's top of the
  priorities. Much has been. much will be done this year, but much
  much more needs to be done. There has to be put massive, massive
  amounts of finance put into our health, because we're fallen so far
  behind, that it's gonna take us years of just catching up with the
  rest of the United Kingdom.

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm, you were earlier talking about education. Another thing in
  education has also been the 11+ exam...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• which has lately been discussed. What's your position there.
  Should one keep the Northern Irish system?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• I.. I think personally that... this is only a personal opinion.
  It's one that splits even my own party. So you know, I don't wanna
  give any particularly hardline view on it. I think it's safe to say
  that eveyr avenue will have to be looked at as regards the future
  on the 11+. There is no point in scrapping the 11+, if we don't
  have something satisfactory to replace it with. And at this given
  time, it's as good an indicator as what we're gonna have.

Johannes Wilm

• Ok. yeah, very good. Ehm... What about drug problems and
  anti-social behavior?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Well, that is a big... I mean, I'm on the policely liaison
  committee, and drugs are a big. It's not as bad in Belfast and
  Northern Ireland in general as what it would be in Dublin or what
  it would be in Manchester or any of the other major cities across
  Europe, but the alarm bells are starting to ring. It is a problem
  and we can't just burry our head in the sand and think that it's
  not there. It is there.

Johannes Wilm

• hmmm

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• And we all need to be doing as much as we can to eliminate it
  because we're seeing too many young lifes destroyed and aah.. we
  all need the police, the community workers, the politicians, we all
  need to work together in harmony, to try and alliviate this
  horrible, horrible problem that faces all of us

Johannes Wilm

• yeah... Somewhat related, the BBC recently reported on a
  dramatic increase in teenage suicides...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• particularly in Northern Ireland.

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Yes, that's become a major source... I mean, just in this road
  alone this past while back, we've had nothing but people just...
  people who've known personally who you wouldn't have imagined and
  who have commited suicide. Now I think there is some of it that is
  related to drugs, but not all. I think it will be very wrong, I
  think we had a few, a few cases that were evidently related to
  drugs, but I mean, suicides are a big major problem. And again, the
  government need to, to be setting up councilors in that field and
  making available. If people are feeling down, there should be
  people they can go and speak to. A lot of work needs to be done.
  It's not for people like me. We need the experts to come in and be
  available, to assist the like of the Samaritans, who are a
  wonderful organization, who do a magnificient job. But they need to
  be more... to be given more finance that they can employ more
  concilors that go into the areas and talk and to make themselves
  available to people who would feel suicidal.

These gates are shut to prevent protestants from the Shankill Road and catholics from The Falls to attack oneanother. What's so progressive about that?

Johannes Wilm

• hm... Ehm, now the Shankill Mirror reports on eh.. a cut in
  4.8% of the budget of the Youth Service in the draft budget of the
  department of education. Is...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Yeah, well again, we're apauled with that; I'm personally
  apauled with that. And I will be working with the Shankill Mirror
  to highlight this. We, I mean, these are the very services where
  government should be pouring money into, I mean the Youth Serv..
  youth activity. When we spoke there about suicidals, and these are
  the very places that can help prevent suicides; can help people to
  keep of drugs. So it's wrong to be cutting services that are doing
  a duty for the people of Northern Ireland. So, we will be fighting
  to get that budget increased again.

Johannes Wilm

• ok... eh.. Another issue has been joy riding. That is
  when...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• when young teenagers do crazy stunts in their cars and then put
  videos of it on the internet

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Again, I was on a police meeting yesterday, and I brought this
  very subject up. W-we in-in protestant West Belfast don't have a
  lot of it, but w-we have noticed that over this past lot of years,
  it's on the increase, and I've actually spoke to the police and
  told them that we need to have a greater police presence in all the
  areas, because there are certain areas where it happens, you know
  where there are these hills and they're after a chase, so we've
  asked the police, and I've personally asked them to... to zoom in
  on this, and to have greater police presence, because we don't want
  it to get any worse than what it already is.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah... You mention the police. Do you generally have
  confidence that they are concerned about your area and...

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• yeah, I'll.. I'll

Johannes Wilm

• your issues?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• I think the.. My worry is that I don't believe there is enough
  police men. I mean from the Patton Report the police were cut by
  50% in numbers, and their su... As far as I'm concerned, there
  simply not just enough police men on the beat to cope. With all the
  areas... If you look at the whole multitude of problems that we
  have, you've drugs, you've joyriding, you've break-ins, you've
  anti-social behavior, you've attacks on our OAPs [Old aged
  pensioneers], so the police don't, in my opinion, have sufficient
  men on the ground to cover and to deal with all those problems. And
  again I raised that yesterday, and we will continously be raising
  it with our MPs to see if more finance can be made available, but
  most important of all, to increase the number of police we have on
  our in our areas.

Johannes Wilm

• ok. Last question question: Do you feel that the working class
  is sufficiently politically represented?

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• Not really, it's unfortunate it's not well. It's probably
  better represented now than it ever has been, I mean, if you go
  back thirty... over thirty years ago, when we had the like of the
  Unionist government in charge where they were middle class, and
  they didn't particularly have any worries about working class. They
  knew that people had no choice but vote for them, or you voted for
  a catholic... they actually played the orange card here with that,
  but now there still not enough, but I mean at the least they're in
  both parties, in the DUP and in the official unionist party and of
  course, my own party which is based... we are, you know working
  class in the Progressive Unionist Party. But others are taking a
  lead, and I think whilst their parties may not be directly what you
  would call working class, there are individual elected members
  within it that are trying to push the working class issues

Johannes Wilm

• ok, well thank you very much

Hugh Smyth (PUP)

• you're very welcome, I hope you find it helpful

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

I leave his office and within a few minutes I am in the protestant Falls Road area. The answers he gave me actually satisfied me, but then again, he is a politician, and associated with the PUP is the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF), a militia group with a long history of killing people. Does he know about all that? Is Mr. Smyth giving orders himself, or does it happen despite his advice to follow the parliamentary way and to work for less anti-social behavior and more apprenticeships?