Welcome to the blog of Johannes Wilm!

I recently went to Northern Ireland, to the city of Belfast. The Left has generally supported those pro-catholics, who are working for a united Ireland as a part of a national liberation struggle from London rule. I decided to interview representatives of progressive parties on either side on the issues that socialists should really care about -- social issues -- to see how different they really are in their day-to-day politics in these current times of peace. This is the second of three parts, me interviewing Paul Maskey, member of the Northern Irish Assembly for Sinn Fein, in his office in Western Belfast. Part three with the conclusion will follow tomorrow.

Paul Maskey (Sinn Fein) claims to represent progressive republicanism.

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm, yeah, the first thing is I noticed when walking around
  there was quite a bit of graffiti against gentrification.

Paul Maskey

• ok

Johannes Wilm

• ehm, there are apparently apartment buildings that eh... are
  for the let's say those who have more money.

Paul Maskey

• mhm

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm... whereas others complain about lack of public
  housing.

Paul Maskey

• mhm

Johannes Wilm

• What's your policy on that?

Paul Maskey

• Well, my... our policy on that it's... I mean there needs to be
  more social housing.

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

Paul Maskey

• Ehm... there is clearly not enough. In West Belfast there is an
  area which I represent, there's almost 3000 people on the waiting
  list. And it's gone up year on year. Ehm, so them figures keep on
  increasing, so we're arguing and lobbying... ehm, the government
  department follow it, to create more social housing, ehm... and to
  reduce the waiting lists, and they need to do it in a number of
  manors and a number of ways, and it-it it's not, I mean you will
  see ehm... private apartments, private houses going up, and that's
  OK. We're not arguing against that, well, we argue because a lot of
  the stuff that's happening now is a lot of cargo[?] space being
  taken away from our community

Johannes Wilm

• mmm...

Paul Maskey

• wherefore[?] there could have been houses are being demolished,
  to put up where you maybe had 1 or 2 houses maybe 30 or 34 or 36-40
  apartments, which is a clear case of over-development, because to
  create... it's not about building houses, it's about building
  communities, that's where we want to be, because if there's homes,
  there need to be schools, there needs to be shops, there needs to
  be employment opportunities, there needs to be doctor surgeries,
  there need to be dentists. You need to build communities, so there
  has to be more thought put[?] into areas and communities, because
  we have areas in West Belfast under British direct rule, we have
  areas like Trimble and Pulgas, that're just thousands of
  houses put up, no amenities, no facilities, not one child park
  within the emares[?] for kids to play in. And it's a disgrace. So
  we should not allow that to happen and we are trying now to say if
  you're going to mend[?] and you wanna develop in our areas and in
  our communities, then you have to show us the plan. But not a plan
  for just the homes, for the other amenities from... that's obvious,
  we're very strong advocates for that.

Johannes Wilm

• How about public unding funding for infrastructure like roads
  and public parks and so on.

Paul Maskey

• Yeah, I mean that quite important. There's many different
  government departments. The problem is, they all work in
  isolation. They work like a sailor-defact[?] where one department
  will do this and another department will do that. There's not
  enough crossover between inter... ehm.. work between different
  government department. What I'm trying to urge all government
  departments, is that they need to work collectively, because
  there's no point in... If I'm one government department providing
  houses, there's no point in me working in isolation from health or
  social development or-or whether it's interesting for trade and
  stuff. You have to work together and show each other plans so you
  know the communities of, to make sure that the roads for example are
  not... because if want to build a thousand homes, then there need
  to be that proper road infrastructure, needs to be taken out[?],
  and there needs to be the proper bus links, is there rail links, is
  there.. ehm a rapid transit system needs to be put in to reduce the
  ehm... the cars going o our roads every day. So all that has to be
  worked together. So yes, we are very much urged all government
  departments to inter... eh. interlink to ensure that all them
  problems are addressed from a very early stage. We cannot build a
  housing estate with a thousand homes in it and then think about
  everything else. That has to be incorporated in it.

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm, now industry over the last twenty years, you have had sort
  of a rapid decline in...

Paul Maskey

• yeah...

Johannes Wilm

• I think Harland & Wolfe, Shorts, Mackies...

Paul Maskey

• yeah...

Johannes Wilm

• is there anything the government should do about that?

Paul Maskey

• Yes, [?] area where I represent in west Belfast, including the
  Shankill, where there is a lot of areas that are in social need. If
  you live in West Belfast, you're more likely to be unemployed than
  you do in other areas. If you live in West Belfast you're more
  likely to die earlier than you do in other areas. So all that
  factor has to be factored in so, and employment is a great
  opportunity, so yes, I do believe that the government needs to be
  looking at creating industry, and there's different facets...
  industry has many different facets, where we can look at for
  example in areas of West Belfast, they need to be... If it's
  foreign direct investment they need to be steered toward areas of
  social need, because that's where it's gonna have the best effect;
  that's where it's gonna lift communities to the level of everywhere
  else and that creates employment opportunity. There's different
  levels of... and I say, and I look at West Belfast, for example in
  the Shankill industry, I count tourism as an industry. Tourism is a
  massive industry, if we get our act together. People [?] places in
  West Belfast cause there's thousands and thousands of people every
  year coming to see West Belfast, because they've seen it on TV;
  they've all seen the Falls road; they've all seen -- maybe for the
  wrong reasons or the real one[?], whatever the reason is, but
  they've seen it anyway, so there's a curiosity factor between the
  Shankill and the Falls Road area. And many thousands of people will
  come to see those two roads. But there's not one hotel int he two
  areas. So the tourists will come in, but they can't stay, so they
  can't spend more money in that community, so the local shop can't
  benefit from it, the local restaurant can't benefit from it, the
  local bars can't benefit from it, because people come in and they
  got a bowl... or what you call a face bowl scenario, where you
  buses driving in thousands of people, people looking at the
  windows and then driving back out again. The local community can't
  benefit from that. So government need to get real, when it's coming
  to tourism. They need to start looking at locating hotels within
  our areas where people can stay. That's one part, and then we're
  gonna see what's gonna happen. Because in Belfast alone, tourism
  sustains 16000 jobs. Now we want some of them jobs to be sustained
  in West Belfast.

Deprivation is deprivation, no matter whether republican or loyalist.

Johannes Wilm

• OK, ehm. Another issue: the NHS..

Paul Maskey

• mhm

Johannes Wilm

• do you feel that it's good enough...

Paul Maskey

• no

Johannes Wilm

• as it is?

Paul Maskey

• It's not good. Ehm... some areas of it are very good and some
  areas are very poor. My own father was in the hospital, just over a
  year ago with a chest infection, and get taken out two weeks later
  dead because of all the infections that they get in hospital. Now
  that's very very poor. It's very poor where people who can go in
  the hospital and come out either sicker than what they went in or
  in fact dead in many cases. Now that's very poor, and that's basic
  medication stuff. Some of our medical services are second to none.
  In fact some of them are world class. But you can have all your
  world class facilities, but your people can die due to nearly[?]
  uncleanliness and bugs what they're catching when they go in to
  the hospital. So that has that effect on it. So, the waiting lists
  are coming down, some of them are gone with, but there is a fact
  where you can wait for maybe a year for minor surgery, but it's a
  service which there is an acute need to be overhauled. It needs
  to be improved. And I do believe that under the fourth[?]
  government, which we have now, we'll actually make that happen.
  Cause the local minister, the minister for health, is somebody from
  Belfast. We can argue with him, we can have a word on a daily basis
  and tell him: 'you must improve this'. So I think it will get
  better. It need to improve. But it's a sad indictment on the health
  service, when people can die, coming to the hospital.

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm.. And in education, currently there has been a debate about
  the 11+ exam

Paul Maskey

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm... Where you in Northern Ireland have had a somewhat
  different system than what one has had in most of England

Paul Maskey

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• What's you position on that?

Paul Maskey

• Well, my position is that the 11+ doesn't work. It hasn't
  worked; it's failed. It works in some areas. But again I have to go
  back to areas, including the Shankill, in the year 2001, 1 child --
  and now it is an area of social deprivation. It's an area of need.
  One child in the Shankill in the year 2001 passed the 11+. So I
  have to say: why does on one one child pass that? Because it tells
  you that there's needs going in there, it also tells you that
  that's... it failed, it might work in some areas, but it fails many
  people from the areas like what I represent in West Belfast,
  including the Shankill. And other areas also. Because people cannot
  afford extra tuition for their kids, so if you come from a working
  class or a middle class background you can't afford for your child
  to get extra education[?] on a Saturday or some evenings. But if
  you come from an area where there's social need and you can't
  afford to do that and then your child goes automatically ehmm.. I
  suppose disenfranchised, because you can't give that. So that tells
  you that if you come from a rich background, the 11+ is good,
  because you can get your child higher. But if you come from a
  poorer background, you can't give your child the best bargain. So
  what I want to do is to ensure that everybody at that age has
  equal... because equality is central to having sustainable futures
  and sustainable development for us all. And equality in that is
  that every child at eleven... because remember it's called the 11+,
  I have two... I've had two kids who would do, who have done the
  11+. But they've done it at the age of ten, so the fact that it's
  called the 11+... All kids who do it are ten, there's very few of
  them who'll actually be eleven ears of age. They're eleven when
  they leave primary school to go secondary school. But they've done
  their test many, many months prior to it. So most of them are ten,
  so I can't see how you can decide the child's future at the age of
  ten, to say that's the school you're gonna go to, you'll work at
  that school and that's the best school for you. It's very hard, and
  I think it's unfair on many of our children and it's indictment. I
  think the change.. there is a radical change, needs to be happening
  within our education, because too many kids are coming out of
  school, even secondary school, worse than what they've been before
  in primary school. So there is a lack of basic skills, and I think
  that the current minister, CaitríonaRuan, will go along the
  way to change it. She is currently consulting every... and the most
  important thing about the 11+ is, every parent who's child is
  coming up will get a chance to feed in to the constipation process.
  So every parent will have a say. Every child will have a say. And
  every school will have a say, cause all the areas are different and
  all the areas will demand difference in education, and that's the
  way it should work, because area based education system will
  probably work out better than one size, that's all

Johannes Wilm

• Ok, but mainly that is then importing the English... the
  English version of it, isn't it?

Paul Maskey

• Well, I mean. Ok, all I'm saying is there can be many versions
  of it. Also, what I'm also saying, there's different parts of West
  Belfast might need a different education system from other parts of
  West Belfast, so we shouldn't have necessarily the bigger picture
  anywhere up. We know what we need. Our school doing emphitament[?].
  Most of them will exactly know what demands are of the communities,
  and they should be able to put in area based plans to actually move
  into the future, because we need our kids... And I think this will
  be a radical overhaul. I think, if done right, other countries can
  actually learn from this model, if done right, wearing simple
  members[?].

Focusing on social issues (here: hunger) has a longer tradition amongst republicans. Comparatively, today's living standards are great (man in car).

Johannes Wilm

• Ok, staying in the area of kids. The. your local paper here
  writes about that there is an excessive amount of anti-social
  behavior and drug abuse.

Paul Maskey

• Yeah, I mean that's local papers writing. I'll have to say that
  Belfast is no worse off than any other city in the world. In fact,
  you can go back three or four years ago, Belfast was thought the
  third safest city in the world, even for visitors to come to see,
  so it's no worse than anywhere. So in fact it's a lot safer than
  most of the other cities throughout the world. Which is...

Johannes Wilm

• yeah

Paul Maskey

• Which is very important because of where we come from. We came
  from a war-torn society, and we're only recently over that. And we
  are still a suicide[?]. But however, there is anti-social behavior
  and drugs...

Johannes Wilm

• it's the Anderson Town News

Paul Maskey

• Yeah, yeah, in the Anderson Town News yeah. And there is... And
  we can't deny there's drug dealing, and there is car crime. There
  is. People die through the car crime. But I have to say this: The
  British government has allowed it to go on for too long, under
  direct rule. They have allowed... Because what they've done is...
  And I know what they've done, and even in Belfast city center for
  example, where you've people who've maybe caught where you've
  people maybe drinking in Belfast city center. The PSNI, which is
  the police service, will have pushed them out of the city center
  into areas like West Belfast, and they had a... they didn't cur[?]
  and they didn't try to say 'no, you shouldn't be drinking, now you
  should move out[?]'... So what they were doing was they were
  funneling[?] people in from other parts of the city, city center,
  into areas like West Belfast, and say: well, that's good enough for
  them and that was the mentality behind our police service here for
  many, many years. But now people are saying: no, we've had enough.
  We're not gonna allow it to happen. We're not gonna allow West
  Belfast to be treated anywhere else... than any other part of the
  city. But again, employment opportunities... we re... if you come
  from an area of social need and you come from an area, you will
  find that there's always more crime and more anti-social behavior.
  There's more drug problems, there's more socializers providing more
  alcoholics. But we have to remember we have come from a war, many
  people from this community, that I represent, fought in that war
  for many, many years. Many of our young people, who are now coming
  to da[?], father's and mother's fought against Britain. And, so
  them side, where some of the young people are saying, well my mo...
  my parents may have done that, what am I to do? You know. And so
  there's attitudes where other people are coming through, in the
  other end of a war saying: we need to walk... move into the future.
  But I think it's very, very important to always remember that under
  direct rule, Britain... British ministers who were imposing part[?]
  here, didn't occur. They didn't invest. There was no massive
  employers in West Belfast. Like you had in East Belfast. You had
  Harland & Wolf, and you mentioned earlier on, in it's heyday
  they had between 40 and 50000 working that place. Most of them are
  from protestant communities, very few were from nachments[?].
  Mackies, as well, was another protestant site. Shorts, the majority
  of people worked there, were protestants. People from this area,
  would never have had a chance to get a job in some of them places.
  And yet, government didn't try to promote... or even try to promote
  any other investments in these areas; neglected them, so we're
  still trying to come out of the other end of that. And we will do,
  but it will take a while for that to happen.

Johannes Wilm

• eh, somewhat related, the BBC recently reported on a dramatic
  increase in teenage suicides in Northern Ireland. What's your
  response to that?

Paul Maskey

• Well our response to that is ehm we have... in fact Gerry Adams
  in an MP for West Belfast who has worked perilously regarding trying
  to get a strategy. And even to try to get a strategy built up, that
  came against opposition from British direct rule ministers. they
  didn't want to put investment into it. They didn't want to look at
  it. as... So I mean Gerry... Gerry Adams has lobbied very very
  strong on behalf of that. We now have a couple of places in West
  Belfast. But there's one in the Falls Road called Suicidal Worlds,
  it's open 24 hours. People who are feeling suicidal can now call in
  say, a drop-in center, people can call in, the can lift the phone
  up and speak to us[?] on the other end of the phone. An that's now
  happening. And that's where we're at so... But it's not enough. The
  policy and the strategy, because I know some of the places you may
  touch on later on as we need... because Ireland is a fairly small
  country, and we're gonna have a policy which may work in 26
  counties, which is... between the Republic[?] of Ireland and
  policies here. We need an all-Ireland approach to it. We need to be
  serious about that issue because the same issues are affecting
  people who are living in Dublin as well. The suicide rate has gone
  up. So what we wanna do is make sure we're capping[?] on them
  issues. Because we're gonna learn from other places and what
  they've done as well. So we need an all-Ireland approach. We need
  funding on an all-Ireland basis. We need to insure that all the
  mechanisms are being put into place. And again, employment
  opportunities as well. Because young people who don't seem to have
  a future, in their own mind don't have a future. So there's
  goodmoon-bloom[?]in some of the young people's minds. So it's about
  lifting it, it's about giving them equal opportunities, giving them
  employment opportunities, education opportunities a whole lot and I
  think hopefully you can help address that issue. But it needs to be
  done on an all-Ireland basis.

Johannes Wilm

• Right, also, another thing that young people do is
  joy-riding...

Paul Maskey

• yeah...

Johannes Wilm

• apparently, which is that you make stunts in your car and then
  you film it and put it on the internet

Paul Maskey

• yeah

Johannes Wilm

• Which is apparently a trend here

Paul Maskey

• Yeah, it's trend... It was wore going back many years ago, back
  a number of years ago. So it's actually started to reduce. But
  there's been a number of people killed through it, and I wouldn't
  call it joy-riding. The term I in all honesty would put on it is
  death riding. Because death riders have actually killed a number of
  people, including children within our communities. I think it's a
  scourge; I have no time or sympathy sometimes with regards to it.
  But however, we need to look at where's actually [?] with it. It
  has reduced. And the unfortunate thing with modern technology can
  bring many odd things to haunt us, because kids can now use this as
  a tool -- their phones. As a [?] they now can put on their Bebo
  sites and get it done. They get a kick out of this. And they get,
  so... I mean some times modern technology is great in many aspects,
  and... unfortunate, most of us can't live without our blackberries
  or mobile phones or computers and even your tape recorder -
  mp3-player and stuff, we can't really live without them now. But
  it's sometimes a bad, because it gives people the easier
  opportunities, whether they're trying to get young people to do
  internet sex, or whether whether they're taking video recordings of
  bad things happening to get a kick out of it. So... but we need,
  obviously, to have [?] in place. Thankfully joyriding has reduced,
  but it's not, it's not stopped completely.

Parts of the Falls Road could be anywhere in Europe -- only the store names give its location away.

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm, and yet, local media reports that in the draft budget of
  the department of education , the budget for the Youth Service will
  be reduced by 4.8%?

Paul Maskey

• No, it's actually... Well, it was. And the minister actually
  fought very hard in the program for government. And that was a
  draft, on the real one, that's been brought back. It's got
  embasement 4.8 million pound in that budget, which is exactly the
  amount that that equates to. So that's now back, as long, cause
  minister CaitríonaRuane fought very hard with it with her
  colleges on the executive to ensure that that... because youth is
  very , very important to us. So, that is now back. But, we need a
  long-term strategy, and again, go back to the point we were talking
  on earlier on, cause education is only one point of youth services.
  Other government departments need to be coming buying[?] the
  service of youth service because youth service really is to combat
  anti-social behavior, it relates to our kids being brilliant people
  for the future. It can relate to... it can help address, the issues
  of avoiding suicide. It can help many, many issues, but so other
  government departments have to buy in, because government
  departments only have so much money as well, but if they would buy
  in collectively from other agencies within government, and the will
  have to address that.

Johannes Wilm

• Ehm, we sort of touched it before, but what's your general idea
  about the police. Do you have... As they are now, do you have
  confidence and trust in that they're concerned about your areas and
  your issues?

Paul Maskey

• Well, I have to say they're not fully concerned about, but
  we're gonna make them concerned about. We're gonna... cause we've
  taken on a job now within, within this last year, let's say where
  we're gonna go on to the boards, policing boards, we're gonna go on
  to the district policing partnerships. We're not gonna be
  spectators, like everybody else was on them prior to it. We're
  going on to give a lot of finger pointing to people and say: 'You
  have a job to do, and you better start doing it! Because if you're
  not gonna start doing it, then there will be a prize to pay!' And
  the thing to say in the communities I represent: very few people
  trust the police; even just the... And we're now saying: 'right,
  we're bringing the PSNI in, and I meet them as well on regular
  basis to tell them the issues and that they don't meet them issues,
  and they don't meet their targets, and then the question is put to
  them: 'Why have you not met that target before?' So we're there to
  tell them to. We're not there to be spectators; we're not there
  watching them and saying 'yes, you've done a great job'. We're
  there to tell them to[?] and we will continue to do that, until
  they start to get it in their own head. That we need to be doing
  this; we need to be working, cause policing is best suited at
  community level. The community must be involved at all levels of
  policing, because I think we come back[?] to the education issue --
  there's nobody who knows this community like the people who live in
  this community. They know what the issues are. They how some tend
  to tackle them issues, so the police face now needing to listen to
  the community to actually move forward. And that's what we've
  fosessed[?] on, that's what we've embarked on, and that's what
  we're gonna continue to do, until we get it right. Policing will
  never be right; policing is always wrong, and there'll always be
  crime. You can't stop crime by 100%, but we will lurk[?] that they
  make sure, that they help address the issues in our
  communities.

Johannes Wilm

• Ok, and very last question: Do you feel that the working class
  is sufficiently politically represented as it is today?

Paul Maskey

• Well, yes. I mean I come from a working class background. I'm a
  socialist; I represent the socialist party. I... In West Belfast
  for example, there's 6 MLAs, 5 are from SinnFein. The MP for the
  area is a socialist. So, I mean we are using them uble[?]., because
  I talked to you earlier about areas of social need, right? The
  couple of ministers working together. I raise areas of social need
  at every single level, I can do so at the assembly. Any commite I
  will run, I will speak of areas of social need, as well as other
  areas as well. But I... But before, that was never challenged and
  never pushed. So what we're doing now as a party is actually
  represent the area. For me as a socialist for example, I have to
  represent the area, but I have to live by my socialist values. When
  I look at the assembly for example, there's a wage of 30-40,000
  pounds in times[?] leading up to 50,000 pounds. I don't take that;
  the party gets my wage. So the party simply take my wage, and they
  give me a living wage, just as a small wage. So I'm not a big
  career politician, I'm here because I wanna represent the people in
  the area where I live and the people who I know and love so much.
  And that's where my feeling is.. I-I give my money away, and I take
  a living wage. The party take that and give me a living wage. Other
  people: I get the same amount of money that Gerry Adams gets, as
  the party president. As a minister, there's ministers, we have a
  number of ministers in the assembly. They get the same wage as me.
  Somebody working in this office, they'll get the same wage as me,
  and the same wage as .. there's no difference. So we have to
  look... That's all equal. So we will insure, that any issues what
  we're drawn out of that, that's socialists. And we will have to
  insure that them policies are brought into the assembly as well.
  And I love that, and I want that, any stuff I wanna argue for is on
  them same principles. I do admit the fact that we have to be
  economic, the economic evolvement of the North is very crucial
  point. And inv... Even private investment is very important for
  the long term sustainability of Ireland. So I do recognize that fact
  as well. And we have t work on them sectors as well. It's very,
  very important whether that incorporates, but I represent a working
  class community will do so and we do represent cases on behalf of
  my constituency on a daily basis.

Johannes Wilm

• Ok, Thank you very much

I go outside with Maskey to take his picture on the stairs outside his office. Finally I ask him: "So -- if you're socialist, and you happen to be protestant… what party do you vote for?" Two seconds of silence, then Maskey says "puh, well then there is the PUP, right?" He goes on to tell me how various protestants have come to his office to ask for help with various bureaucratic things, but still he concludes that they would not likely vote for SinnFein anytime soon. And, as he concludes before we part, what he really wants to see is "a united Ireland". And after all, the Provisional Irish Republican Army (IRA) that is connected to them, who for several decades fought an armed struggle, involving many civilian casualties.

I walk on, and back to the university area where I'm currently staying at. Tomorrow, I'll publish my conclusion.